Vocaloid 3 Engloid: Oliver by PowerFX and VocaTone


A project between VocaTone (A relatively new US based company) and PowerFX to create a new younger, male Engloid. This project has been confirmed by multiple people at the VocaloidOtaku website and a demo song, was released on October 31st. A 13 year old British boy provided the voice samples and gives Oliver’s voice a true child-like voice, voiced by an actual child. Demo song after the break.

Because they used multiple voices (Sweet Ann, Big Al and Oliver) Oliver is somewhat hard to hear sometimes, but the voice is there.

About: Pengy


28 thoughts on “Vocaloid 3 Engloid: Oliver by PowerFX and VocaTone”

  1. Gonna call it now. He will suck giant amounts of ass. Why you may ask? Because He is in a stress tone language that you will easily pick out the faults in and has never sounded good when put through synthesizers. They really should just stop making engloids all together and focus on the Jploids and other tone accent languages only. 

    1. Bias opinion rides again… English is one of the most spoken languages in the world, this is why they push it.  It also has one of the largest sectors of the music industry and one of the biggest markets. There is pretty good reason to sell English Vocaloids.  Plus this tech will get better over time, even Miku is sucky when you look at her vocal results, she slurs all her vowels pretty much except a few.  Give the Vocaloid software time; we don’t need biasedness right now what wikth so many languages  on the way.

      1. Please the Japanese one may have some problems but no where near as bad as the engloids and by listening to them in the V3 engine they barely fixed anything. Big Al still over pronounces everything making him sound like he has down syndrome, Tonio can’t even pronounce some basic words, Prima and Sonika have such poor recordings that even post production editing can’t save them from even worse slurring then a jploid or pops or clicks, And Sweet Ann and Luka still have such heavy accents that half of the words don’t even sound correct. The tech was not improved enough to make english even barely understandable with the V3 engine and it since the Yamaha programmers keep following the same pattern in programing it isn’t ever going to be fixed. That’s why Yamaha should just drop the engloids altogether.

        1. Haha, troll harder kid. It’s obvious you don’t know a word of Japanese, or you’d know how icky the JP Vocaloids’ pronunciation is. Go back to your legos or whatever the fuck it is kids play with these days, and leave the cool tech for the people who don’t pretend to be trolls (badly) in their spare time on a low-traffic blog site. Seriously.

          1. And you obviously didn’t even bother to read my comment since I said that the Jploids have slurring. The engloids are just even worse at it. Sonika would be the prime example with her gawd awful @U phoneme. The Vocaloid engine will never be able to fix this and therefore it shouldn’t bother with it. At least with a tone based language you can fix pronunciation.

          2. QQ more.

            Rin and Len’s voicebanks are absolutely shit. Compared to Sonika’s they’re about on the same level of quality. There’s a reason they required an act 2. Even their act 2 isn’t that outstanding. All the crypton vocaloids sound really unrealistic due to the fact they were meant to sound this way. Lily’s voice has a metallic twang to it and it’s muffled as fuck. Piko’s voice is also muffled and the quality is god awful. Let’s not forget that all the AH Soft vocaloids are hard as fuck to use unless you’re an intermediate vocaloid user. Gachapoid’s voice is awkward and disliked among the majority of the vocaloid fandom, to the point he’s used less than more vocaloids, despite his actually nicer quality over Rin and Len’s shit quality.

            Then we’ve got Gakupo’s thick voice which is a pain in the ass to use and Gumi’s though realistic and a lot easier to use, she still sounds like she’s sleeping the majority of the time.

            All Vocaloids have flaws, and a lot of the Japanese ones are shit. Get your head out of the clouds.
            Fuck I love the Japanese vocaloids too but god damn most of them are so awful in quality. The only reason they ‘sound good’ so often is because the Vocaloid community is so much larger in the Japanese fandom. More people use them.

            The Engloids all have flaws too, and it doesn’t help that we lack in voice types. Prima’s voice is something for intermediate users, along with Tonio, and it doesn’t help that the voices are not flexible in the slightest. Miriam’s voice is pretty much hard to use because of her heavy accent, Sonika was badly recorded in general so she’s awful to use period(Special snowflake). Lola and Leon sold great when they were first released but they are on an older engine that’s pretty much dead and is harder to use over vocaloid2 or 3 engines. As for Big Al, his voice is a voice type that lots of Japanese vocaloid users are not used to in the damned slightest due to how deep it is. (There is not a single Japanese vocaloid with that deep of a voice unless you edit the shit out of them) His voice is shit because people crank it up so high or aren’t accustomed to using a voice so dead. Sweet Ann’s voice is probably the best in pronounciation but her voice type and accent really turn off a lot of people so that’s a major flaw on it’s own.

            TLDR: All vocaloids are shit in their own ways.

          3. Though those are good examples of the Japanese vocaloids flaws they still don’t out do the engloids in flaws. As you stated the Crypton vocaloids are not meant to sound realistic. Meanwhile the Engloids are advertised as being realistic yet they are so poorly made that they can not uphold their claim.
             The Jploids as you said have some muffled issues but with a few tweaked voice parameters and presto the Jploid are instantly clear ( Along with this Yamaha as also introduced with the newer jploids and even Korean vocaloids newer styles of recording to get better and cleaer recordings)mean while on the engloid side you can’t do just that you have to go into third party programs to make them just barely understandable; just look at how many filters Zero-G had to use in the song competition to make Sonika even remotely understandable.
            As for LE♂N and L♀LA being well sold that is hardly true, they had to be taken off the market for a while because of the lack of interest and poor quality.
            Moving on to Al even when used in the proper range you can hear the poor quailty because of the engine trying to make the stress accents that it can’t handle. Vocaloid 1, 2 and 3 ( From the demos I have heard so far) is to simplistic to handle the bastard language that we call english.
            As for the fandom being larger there is a reason why for that. The Jploids just have nicer voices that are better on the ears. The engloids are so specalized in basically one and only one style that you can hardely do anything with them. It doesn’t help that the engloid company think that making specalized voices sell well. Seriously the onyl two english vocaloids for V3 so far is a choir boy and a celtic themed vocaloid both of which have little use in modern music today.

            That is why we should just forget about trying to work with our stress based langaue and focus on tone based languages because the english banks are even poorer quality then the japanese banks which are improving much faster and little to no market for voice synthesizer  in the west.

          4. On the one hand I hear you, but on the other hand you must realise as a person with bias opinion you will always be held down by your opinions. 

            Actaually in Japan for a long time it was the opinion that the Engloids did a much better job of realism then J-loids and this was true for quite some while.  If I had to bring up the full list of issues, you would see that aside form odds and sods there isn’t MUCH in the way of advantages the J=loids have over the Engloids.  And yes, some J-loids NEED 3rd party software to make them work, some are hard to use.  I know SeeU is only new but she is the latest poor quilaity Japanese voicebank, though she is a Kloid, take that6 in mind. 

            As for Leon and Lola, true there was no interests, but at the saem time there was no Vocaloid fandom until Miku to get interest out of.  Zero-G introdued them because there was now Vocaloid interest, so they wanted to give people a chance to buy these older Vocaloids and get into the software.  there preious redrawal was because they had a normal software syn. self life of 1-2 years and were retired since everyone who wanted them, got them.  In terms of quality, dude thats not true, they were as good of quality as Kaito and Meiko.  In terms of retirement, take note things back in 2004 were not exactly as theyare now.  Yet you like many before you do not know what 2004 had to host…. Nor do you take note little details like the normal self life of such software as Vocaloid as it was when they were released.

            And… Listen mate, whats wrong with english?  Japanese speakers have a limited phonetic sounds and they do not really attempt to seperate their vocal pronounications as broadly as us.  If your going to make Japanese language shine, take note the English language has much more to offer then the Japanese.  Its got the largest dictionary, a much bigger vocal tone range.  I could go on but I find its impossible to explain the merit of English to those who don’t listen.  Don’t rub English down, in recent history Japan itself has begun to borrow English words to expand its own language vocabulaory because it has no words itself for certain things.  The English language is a plucky languag with more to it then the majority of the English speakers realise.  This would be like attacking Frech, Spanish, Korean or any other language.  I’m not saying its superior, but just as Japanese has its perks, so does English. 

            And your argument on genres is weak as well anyway since there are aspects you ignore.  Like how  Oliver, being a young bioy vocal is going to overlap the same genre Len, Piko and Ryuto already are in, expect out of all of those he is the only true young boy.  Also, Yuki was pretty uch the same vocal type (though more child-like for obivous reasons) as Oliver, yet still sold.   I could deconstruct the whole Genre specilaist maer more if I had the time. 

            Even though you argue the J-loids are not specalised, this is not true its just the producers found ways to maniopulate the vocals in various ways.  Does Miku suit every song? Nope!  Can Len cover the same areas as Gakupo?  Nope!  Every Vocaloid has its ups and downs, every vocal a strength and a weakness.  The only thing about Engloids is, because their voicebanks are larger they have to deal with the same issues as J-loids but in bigger ways. 

            But Japanese Vocaloids did not really gear up for realism at first because of Miku and the CFM vocaloids.  Gakupo and Gumi are the first realistic and it was until the VY series that experiments with realism and improvements really took place.

            BTW,  go ahead, knock off more arguments, though you are a troll I will deal with each argument myself.  And take note, I’m used to having to write up on Vocaloids at the vocaloid wikias; though I have opinions on each Vocaloid, I CANNOT show my biasedness and I’ve had to cater for everyone’s needs within this fandom.  Therefore, I’ve got a quite a bit more of a wide spectrum of dealings then you have and I know lots of angles to explain things from.  And I consider myself quite well researched, so “bring it on”.

            All I will say is, though you are blinded by biasedness, please take note that by closing doors you will never see the full potential of the Vocaloid software.  This is a on-going process, there were improvements beign Kaito and Miku just as there were improvements between Leon and Big Al.  But until recently, the feed back on Engloids were much more limited, and until Vocaloid 3 the fans never got a chance to express their desires for Vocaloid 3 and what they want improved with Vocaloids of English speaking nature. 

          5. >Actaually in Japan for a long time it was the opinion that the Engloids
            did a much better job of realism then J-loids and this was true for
            quite some while.
             
            Hardly the Japanese fandom knows that Engloids are crap which is why they are always put into parodies to show that off.

            >And yes, some J-loids
            NEED 3rd party software to make them work, some are hard to use.

            Maybe but each of them either received updates like Len and Rin or it was included like with Gachapoid. Even Internet Co has stated that they will improve on Lily. Meanwhile the engloid companies has already stated they don’t plan on doing this because they think it is fine even though hundreds have complained that the engloids sound like crap.

            Your claiming that it was because there self life ran out that is why people don’t like them? That is just a huge excuse. After LE♂N and L♀LA were released in 2004 many of the major music review companies began to realize that they were poor quality and that there was no need for them. Besides if self life is what makes the difference then Miku should be long gone in popularity. Yet she is still around, why is that? It’s because she was a better quality and overall better sounding. As for LE♂N,L♀LA, and MIRIAM being at the same quality as KAITO and MEIKO is barely true. Both MEIKO and KAITO were built on the 1.2 update of Vocaloid 1 giving them a better quality (even though it barely helped KAITO) When this update was applied to the V1 engloids you could hear the difference in quality like how MIRIAM couldn’t do anything above the D4 without the engine destroying what little quality there was.

            As for me hating english, I really don’t. It is my native tongue. However what I hate is how poorly done english is in synthesizers. It is just to awkward of a language to try to replicate by a machine. japanese and other tone based languages are much easier because they don’t have the awkwardness it almost always follows the same pattern which a synthesizer can understand. Heck Spanish is better then english when it comes to synthesizing because it doesn’t use diphthongs as much (Though not by much).

            >Like how  Oliver, being a young boy vocal is going to overlap the same
            genre Len, Piko and Ryuto already are in, expect out of all of those he
            is the only true young boy.

            And he still sounds god awful because of the poor quality. His demos show how muffled he is and that he is the weakest in the genere. Genre and specializing pretty much go hand in hand. The engloid companies have made it clear that each voice their release of vocaloids are for only one style. Like how Al and Ann are suppose to be lounge singers,Prima and Tonio are only for Opera,LE♂N and L♀LA are only for soul, and MIRAIM and Sonika are pretty much the pop singers. Even when you edit the crap out of the character perimeters they will still have that style/genre in their voice. The Jploids don’t have this as much making it so producers can manipulate them for a much wider array of songs.

            Overall, It doesn’t matter the majority of fans think that the Engloids suck. With the new demos we have of V3 it doesn’t look this is going to change much. The main train of thought for programing engloids is still to use X-Sampa rendering and only recorded CV, VV, and VC when it is clearly not working. Which brings me back to my point that it would be better to just get rid of the engloids altogether.

          6. 6/10 for making me respond to this

            >Maybe but each of them either received updates like Len and Rin or it
            was included like with Gachapoid. Even Internet Co has stated that they
            will improve on Lily. Meanwhile the engloid companies has already stated
            they don’t plan on doing this because they think it is fine even though
            hundreds have complained that the engloids sound like crap.

            Uhh what? The only vocaloids that have recieved updates in voicebanks have been the Crypton ones and Gumi’s V3 voicebanks if that counts(Gakupo is getting them too). Lily wasn’t originally made by Internet.Co, and there has never been anywhere where they have officially said they would upgrade her. They only distribute her after all.

            The Engloid companes have stated that they WOULD upgrade their vocaloids if they recieve high enough demand.

            >Your claiming that it was because there self life ran out that is
            why people don’t like them? That is just a huge excuse. After LE♂N and
            L♀LA were released in 2004 many of the major music review companies
            began to realize that they were poor quality and that there was no need
            for them.

            Sources plzkthnxbai. It’s been stated multiple times that LOLA and LEON were highly successful when they were first released.

            > Besides if self life is what makes the difference then Miku should be
            long gone in popularity. Yet she is still around, why is that? It’s
            because she was a better quality and overall better sounding

            Oh yes and Twilight is popular because it’s the greatest masterpiece in history. Your logic is very poor. Miku’s popularity was indeed because of her voice type, but not because she was better quality or sounded better, she was marketed as an object directed at otaku, not at professional music users at all. Her audience made her popular. Miku’s quality is quite poor and very unrealistic sounding that it hurts my ears listening to most songs I see on niconicodouga daily. :/
            Miku’s quality may be better to a degree, but it’s not in the sense of natural sounding vocals at all. Her voice isn’t meant to sound like a voice acted anime character’s after all and not a professional singer’s(While LEON and LOLA are professional sounding).

            >As for me hating english, I really don’t. It is my native tongue.
            However what I hate is how poorly done english is in synthesizers. It is
            just to awkward of a language to try to replicate by a machine.
            japanese and other tone based languages are much easier because they
            don’t have the awkwardness it almost always follows the same pattern
            which a synthesizer can understand. Heck Spanish is better then english
            when it comes to synthesizing because it doesn’t use diphthongs as much
            (Though not by much).

            ENGLISH CAN ONLY EXIST NATURALLY GAIZ

            >And he still sounds god awful because of the poor quality. His demos
            show how muffled he is and that he is the weakest in the genere.

            >he only listened to the circus monster demo and the halloween sample
            laughinggirls.jpg

            oliver’s voice is pretty high quality and pretty natural sounding. The large majority of the fandom seems to think so too. umad the fandom likes oliver?

            >Genre
            and specializing pretty much go hand in hand. The engloid companies have
            made it clear that each voice their release of vocaloids are for only
            one style.

            I like how you completely ignore the fact that most of the super popular japanese vocaloids are made for specific genres as well. a lot of them aren’t flexible at all and suit for specific genres. the japanese fandom is gigantic so they tend to have lots of producers who think outside the box. the english fandom? not so much.
            a number of examples;
            yuki’s voice is a child’s voice that fits very specific genres of music. it’s quiet so she has a hard time singing lots of songs that require loud and powerful voices
            miku’s voice is meant for pop music specifically and she usually suits it best. her voice isn’t that flexible unless one uses her appends or they use other editting programs for her.
            len is meant for dance, while rin is meant for electro-pop(The both also are directed for enka, pop and rock in general as well)
            luka sounds best with jazz, pop, dance, and a couple other genres, but her voice is so quiet that it’s hard for her to fit outside the genres she’s usually directed for (rock for example, so many people use her with rock but she sounds so bad with it)
            Meiko’s voice is actually meant for choir
            then we’ve got new vocaloids like Seeu whose voice is meant for specifically kpop and pop ballads
            so really i think you’re just being a troll and are completely ignoring aspects about the japanese vocaloids just because you either seem to have had a really bad case with engloids where you don’t know how to use them to your advantage or you tried to use them outside their intended genre or something? it really just feels like youre all upset because you used some engloids before and you just had a bad experience or something. remember that we honestly have more flexible voices with japanese vocaloids and more companies, so i dont blame you if you think they sound ‘better’. but that doesn’t mean all of them are flexible at all. engloids are lacking in voice types and flexibility. that and we only have two (now three) english vocaloid companies. each company’s quality varies, and they handle things differently so i think you just obviously don’t have taste in intermediate/professional voicebanks that are directed at users who want a professional sound and are intermediate at using the software. hard to come by but that’s what those two companies usually go for.

            oliver thus far has a choir voice, but we’ve heard two demos. you’re complaining about his voice only after two demos which is silly because the majority of the time demos don’t show the entire potential of a voicebank at all. why is it suddenly okay to judge a voice entirely on demos with an english vocaloid but then it’s not okay with a japanese one?

            >Overall, It doesn’t matter the majority of fans think that the Engloids suck. With the new demos we have of V3 it doesn’t look this is going to change much. The main train of thought for programing engloids is still to use X-Sampa rendering and only recorded CV, VV, and VC when it is clearly not working. Which brings me back to my point that it would be better to just get rid of the engloids altogether.

            yet oliver is probably one of the most popular and anticipated v3’s that is upcoming. most of the feedback is positive, and loads of people are excited for this vocaloid a lot more so than previous other english vocaloids. even the japanese are interested in this one.

          7. >Uhh what? The only vocaloids that have recieved updates in voicebanks
            have been the Crypton ones and Gumi’s V3 voicebanks if that
            counts(Gakupo is getting them too). Lily wasn’t originally made by
            Internet.Co, and there has never been anywhere where they have
            officially said they would upgrade her. They only distribute her after
            all.

             unfortunately the official link is now dead but it has already been reported on. Though if you asked here vocaloidism I’m sure a mod can bring it up for you since they were the ones who reported on it.

            >Sources plzkthnxbai. It’s been stated multiple times that LOLA and LEON were highly successful when they were first released.

            Sound on Sound, KVRforums, Musicradar, Time+Space music distribution, Do I need to add more?

            >oliver’s voice is pretty high quality and pretty natural sounding. The
            large majority of the fandom seems to think so too. umad the fandom
            likes oliver?

            No really. If some people like him then great. I think people are just being blinded by the fact he is the first english V3 and he is a young boy to cater to the fans. Like I said to Emfrbl he was terrible out of key in scarborough fair on the word “mine” that threw off the entire piece.

            >yet oliver is probably one of the most popular and anticipated v3’s that
            is upcoming. most of the feedback is positive, and loads of people are
            excited for this vocaloid a lot more so than previous other english
            vocaloids. even the japanese are interested in this one

            The same thing happened with both Sonika and Big Al if you look at their demos. However once he is released the fandom will Slow down and Oliver will be forgotten. Or people we get him relase he can’t do what they want and move on.

            Also like with Emfrbl I have to ask this then. If the engloids are just as good as the Jploids then where are the multiple CD’s for them? The huge communities like Piapro or Niconico that show off the engloid talent? The fact is their is none. Youtube is for jploids, Same with Deviantart and Pixiv, Heck Vocaloidotaku may have an engloid section but it is so dwarfed by the jploid fans and other jploid projects that it might as well not even exist. That is why their really is no reason to keep them around. Sure I once tried to defend the engloid heck I loved samfree’s work but the fandom was able to show that they aren’t great and will never be great no matter how much we work on it. ( Not that the companies do much ) So like I said before and I will always say might as well cut off the bad and focus on the good.

          8. Big Al and Sonika got ‘hype’ but never to the extent that Oliver is recieving now. Even the Japanese fandom loves him, I honestly just think you’re a bit buttmad that an English vocaloid is actually being well loved and anticipated.

            Your trolling is pretty poor. It’s pretty obvious when you keep insisting that popularity = better quality.

            Because I mean after all Ryo’s tuning in Melt is better than any other Vocaloid tuning out there? and Twilight is the most greatest piece of literature made this centery.
            Popularity =/= Better quality

            The issue with the English Vocaloids is they are marketed entirely different. Oliver is a very different case here since he’s actually being marketed quite differently from past English Vocaloids.

            Sonika is really BAD and that just also adds to the blatant trolling here from you. No one is saying Sonika is good, but her quality does not mean every other Vocaloid’s quality is bad or like hers. Every vocaloid is quite different with its own ups and downs but you’re so blinded by the fact you seem to think all Japanese vocaloids are so god damned perfect. I honestly feel sorry for people as bullheaded and blind as yourself.

          9.  Oliver is hardly being marketed differently this is just Sonika all over again with newer websites. He already has tumblr and vocatones has said they want to set up a twitter for him. So no he isn’t all that different from the past. Still you haven’t rebuttal my other arguments and I don’t think you will. And yes you can argue that popularity equals quality with software because popular software gets more money which equals being able to use better techniques to record and make even higher quality banks.

            Again you think I’m mad when if they can pull it off great; however after listening to the demos I can tell it is going to fall short of what people are expecting. You should never trust a demo since it is not the ” true ” program itself. People can try to claim that engloids have a handicap all they want but it will never cover up the fact they are just poor quailty and not in a style people want to hear. The majority of fans have admitted that don’t like engloids and that isn’t going to change. Heck most of the attention Oliver has gotten is from Len fans thinking Oliver will be the next Len when it won’t happen.

          10. If the Japanese fandom thinks Engloids are crap, then consider that the Japanese fandom also knows their own Vocaloids are crap.  So if they rate ours as better and by their logic their still crap it does look silly doesn’t it?  The lack of interest in Engloids in Japan is due to language barrier, hence why many buy Luka because they can experiment with English without having a voicebank they can’t use at all.  In fact Language holds the Engloids back in Japan entirely.

            Its money matters that prevent the Engloids being updated.  No one expected Miku popularity to occur, so until Sonika the engloid companies did not cater for fans.  Zero-G and PowerFX are lagging behind because of just how the software developed u[ until now.  As said before there was no fandom prior to Miku to sell Vocaloids too, and until Sonika no attempt to make a English one. 

            Take note, there is a difference between complaining their crap and USING them.  Once you start using Vocaloids your opinions change.  I did not believe Sonika was bad until I used her, but my thoughts at Big Al, Prima and Tonio changed with usage.  Tonio sings BEAUTIFULLY when you make im sing correctly and Big Al has clear pronounications… A little TOO clear sometimes (Al’s vowels are a bitch).

            I can bring up reviews that don’t call Leon and Lola poor qulaity.  Try reading sound on sound for isntance, no where does it say they are bad, but it does give leyway because they are the first.  they were new software, no one had comparisons to go by.   There was a reason why Leon and Lola won an award in 2004; and they were NOT the only ones in that category before you try to say that, they were one of several software suites. 😉

            And Sweet Ann was considered an improvement over them…

            As For Miku, Miku broke the expectations of Vocaloid, do you not read these things?  They keep Miku going because she sold well and is CFM’s most successful product.  Plus things are different now, you do not produce products with short self lives as they can remain on sale for much longer periods now then th past.  The changes on the internet made all of this possible. The fandom that she created kept her selling well.

            BTW,  Kaito was on the update 1.1 while Meiko was originally sold as 1.0.  When Yamaha rleased the 1.2. update, CFM updated the package they sold. 1.2. was put out because 1.1 made 1.0 stop working.  All the updte does is update the engine improve itself and mae 1.1. stop causing the issue with 1.0. .  you can get the update too y for Leon, Lola and Miriam, the reason for not haiving it was that they were already retired by then, and when they returend it was as they were previously, Zero-G left  it to the users to decide to update and 1.2 was free.  Kaito has better quality then Meiko, but thats the same as Miriam having better quality then Leon and Lola.  Actually, there were very little differences overall in the original software and its ridculus your trying to use this engine as examples.  Teh Vocaloid 1 engine is one of the most well documented engines…. And although it was big it was pretty much refined.

            Also the issue with Miriam is a pitching error, one also effects Vocaloid 2 Vocaloids, though she is the most notable.  And J-loids.  Miku herself is not pitched in correctly.  Its cause by variations of the samples.  I used to know about 4 other Vocaloids who had it too, but I can’t remember the names anymore, but Miriam isn’t an isolated case.

            The Spanish Vocaloids are better because a Spanish university helped develope the original engine… I think they can make adjustments to their own languaeg musch easier then the ones they don’t know right.  Hence why their much better.  In contrast, SeeU’s not been a good developement and we’ve got reports confirming she isn’t that great.  And Spanish actually has more diaphongs… Oh good grief, this is embarressing to explain because you are not as well researched as I’d like.  ^_^’

            Okay you seem to be clenching to straws and repeating yourself on the points in your second to last paragraph and I don’t fancy repeating myself.

            Actually, the amount of people who think Engloids suck is changing, people are starting to like them.  Most of the fandoms hate was biasedness and an unwillingness to take in the concept of English Vocaloids and in Vocloid circles even Vocaloids better then Miku are called “crap” by thos who don’t have phonetcis knowledge in front of them or no experience.

            Take note, Miku Hatsune is an outdate voicebank.  She was poor quality when released, although the Kagamine’s were even worst.  The bottom line is though, popular does not always mean best.  Gumi is the most popular Internet co Vocaloid, yet it is Ryuto who is better?   Think about what you are claiming about popularity = quality. Countless people dig at things that are popular because their popularity blinds people into liking them, because everyone else likes them they presume it must be good.

            I deal with guys like you every day… You go around and claim all sorts
            of things, leaving me to adress them.  I’m a Vocaloid wikia editor, my
            job on the wikia is to find argumnts from guys like you and explain what
            is right or wrong. 

            But lets look at the most improtant factor here; your still not
            dismissing that biasedness is driving your opinions forward, and the
            fact I’m seeing so many unresearched faults in your argumets is starting
            to look like you barely know what your talking about. 

            Listen friend, my favourite Vocaloids are Engloids, however I also like Gumi and Gakupo.  Will I admit their the “best Vocaloids”?  No, because that is ludicous when you consider the best qulaity were the VY series.  They were just my personnel perference.  But I hate Miku and yet half the content of the Hatsune Miku page at the Vocaloid wikia was added by me.  I acknolwedge that others like Miku and I can’t disappoint them due to my opinions. I But while I hate her and know she is pretty awful, I will not dismiss that there are Miku songs I like, nor that there were good points to her voicebank such as her reputation for being easy to use.  She had a large vocal range and was made so she sounded cute no matter what vocal range she sang it.  It made her unrealistic but also made her what people wanted. 

          11. You also forget that sound on sound reviewed them as being only average and that on their review of sweet ann that she was repeat performance with the same errors and that even Musicradar called sonika extremely digital sounding and that even the KVR review forums said it wasn’t as interesting as Cantor. Now moving onto your pitch error as isolated it is certainly not for the engloid Sweet Ann, Sonika, and Prima all have it. ( Especially Sonika at G#3 )  Meanwhile how many Jploids do you see have the as many pitch problems as the engloids? Little to none which goes back to the fact they are poor quality. As for the fandom changing I highly doubt that. Once Oliver is released people will reaslse he is poorly made ( Have you heard his scarborough fair it is extremly out on the word ” mine” ) People well go back to enjoying the jploids and forget about the engloids. Of course I could be wrong on it but it was the same thing for when Big Al came out a big hype came around then after his release people calmed down. Still The easiest thing that I can show that the engloids are crap is the a simple statement that made me switch from liking the engloids to hating them. If they are so good then where are the smash hits? The giant communities that make original songs? That fact is their is none. It simple goes to show that people realize they are poor quality and no matter who much good you try to sprinkle on them or excuses you give them they will always be poor quality.

          12. |You also forget that sound on sound reviewed them as being only average
            and that on their review of sweet ann that she was repeat performance
            with the same errors and that even Musicradar called sonika extremely
            digital sounding and that even the KVR review forums said it wasn’t as
            interesting as Cantor.

            Sound on sound treated the Vocaloid software as just that; another software synthiser, so they reviewed it in comparison to other simialir technologies that were around.  Yeah, they noted there were issues, but they also noted this was a new technology with time needed to peffect it, but you miss them saying that its a bold start a good attempt.  You also miss from the Sweet ann review them saying that the techology was capable of being frigthening realistic and that overall the reviews were positive despite the flaws.  In terms of synthisers, they were not impressed therefore, in terms of vocal results, they were impressed with what they got. 

            Erm… I want to make a point here, I found the Cantor information originally for Vocaloid fandom because no one really looked at it. I remember rushing to the forums to show everyone Cantor’s existence
            when I dug up that article because it had some information I had been
            looking for on Vocaloid.   It completed the circle of Vocaloids history
            by revealing that there once was a software trying to compete with
            Yamah’s Vocaloid software… ¬_¬’ 

            So let me say, your not taking into account what Cantor was.  Cantor was a much more advance software then Vocaloid, hence the praise, Vocaloid was ot put down by Cantor, but Canotr did what the Vocaloid software did (they only knew it by their English versions in those days) not.  So they ended up being too different approaches to the same idea.  Canotr was superior to the Vocaloid software, not just  the English Vocaloids, it was an entire vocal editing software lab rolled into one, it didn’t care for realism because of it.  They didn’t know J-loids really at this point and Meiko wasn’t yet released so they just said “Vocaloid software”. And Cantor can do Japanese with tweaking…

            On Sonika, I will not defend her, that would be foolish, she did the job
            of grabbing the attention of the fans and was a experiment.  She is the
            worst fo the Engloid lot, yeah, I will not deny that, but its worthless
            to pick on Sonika as she does not represent every Vocaloid capable of doing English.  But again, SeeU, the Kagamine’s the first 3 Ah-sioftware Vocaloids… Lily.  al of them have issues and even the best male Vocaloid for the Japanese side (VY2) has a issue within his voicebank.  You seem to be parading Sonika around as if she is something special, when we’re telling you here she is not an isolated case and that there are other bad Vocaloids.  You cannot keep masqurading that she is the defination of a typical Engloids quality.  Plus, Sonika’s legacey is that we now have engloid fans and Zero-G got a lot of feed back and suggestions  ad notes put forward to them for future Vocaloids.

            |Now moving onto your pitch error as isolated it
            is certainly not for the engloid Sweet Ann, Sonika, and Prima all have
            it. ( Especially Sonika at G#3 )  Meanwhile how many Jploids do you see
            have the as many pitch problems as the engloids? Little to none which
            goes back to the fact they are poor quality.

            Again, you pretend the J-loids are better and don’t suffer from such things.  Pitching issues are a COMMON Vocaloid problem to Vocaloids in general, its not bound to one language and even the recent SeeU has this issue too.  Most Vocaloid producers clean up their songs before releasing them, because they sit there and go over the notes each piece by piece and correct the issues. 

            Giuseppe, who works with Spanish Vocaloids now but had a lot of
            experience with Vocaloids, knows more about Miku then most.  He has
            worked with many of them, both Japanese and English and can tell you the
            issues with Miku more then I can.  Her quality was poor (Kagamine’s
            even worst).  And your still ignoring that I said earlier, Miku is not
            pitch perfect and this is fairly well established though not as famously known as Miriam’s case. Most pitching issues are mild, but many have it.

            |As for the fandom changing I
            highly doubt that. Once Oliver is released people will reaslse he is
            poorly made ( Have you heard his scarborough fair it is extremly out on
            the word ” mine” ) People well go back to enjoying the jploids and
            forget about the engloids. Of course I could be wrong on it but it was
            the same thing for when Big Al came out a big hype came around then
            after his release people calmed down.

            since Sonika and Big Al, the Engloid fandom is now established and growing.  Sure there are biased people like you around who refuse to love Engloids, but there are now engloid fans whereas a few years ago this was not the case.  I beginning to wonder if you are more afriad the Engloids will get popular enough tp get noticed more then anything.  Even in UTAU, people are developing more then just Japanese voicebanks, they are playing with other langauges; English uncluded.  Its not something to be afriad of, there is growing interest in Vocaloid and growing demand for Vocaloids people can use. 

            | Still The easiest thing that I can
            show that the engloids are crap is the a simple statement that made me
            switch from liking the engloids to hating them. If they are so good then
            where are the smash hits? The giant communities that make original
            songs? That fact is their is none. It simple goes to show that people
            realize they are poor quality and no matter who much good you try to
            sprinkle on them or excuses you give them they will always be poor
            quality.

            You still insist Popularity = equality huh?

            Okay here we go, once again, I’ll explain it to you.

            I’ll start this time with the story of the wikipedia Vocaloid page.  When I first joined the fandom I spent 4 months nagging people to update the wikipedia page because it was VERY Crypton-centric, to the point where even some of the Japanese Vocaloids were shelved.  It took months of rewriting to get it into order… I swore I would never edit it again after some sour events back in 2006 so I didn’t want to edit it.   In th3e end I ddi just that, the reason being was I knew from experience people tended to just read wikipedia and thus the better THAT page was the better things were in the long term for the fandom.

            Someone on the talk page replied with a typical response at the time when I said I was adding mroe information on Engloids “But the Japanese Vocaloids are more popular”. Yes, more popular, but that was no reason to ignore a chunk of the software over this, The English Vocaloids are part of Vocaloids history, whether folks like it or not.  In the end, the Engloids ended up being the most vauable source of information ont eh page and how I found out about Cantor in the first place.  But every turn led me back to the same issue, biasedness had run deep within the fandom since Miku’s release, even to the point where some of the other Vocaloids that were Japanese got ignrore.  Internet co., Ltd’s Vocaloids were also being ignored by the overseas fandom, despite being better then Cryptons Vocaloids at the time.  

            The truth was back in late 2009, when I first lurked and entered the fandom, people were going more by rumours then facts.  People saw Lola’s voice and hate it… Then, some sat down and played with Lola and “WOW, Lola’s actually good?!?”  People have been sitting down, talking amongst themselves, learning about Vocaloids.  More information about them is at hand and we’ve got an overall better fandom then it was in 2009.  Trouble is we’ve got a new problem.

            I’m not making up excuses for the Engloid when I speak of the issues they faces, I’m pointing out that the scarnarios are different for them to the Japanese one.  But people are still learning how to use the software, still struggling to get notice in the meantimed.  Progress has been slow because we’re up against a brick wall hence, there is the Miku fandom to deal with who are not interested in English Vocaloids because they believe Japanese Vocaloids are better, the same people who usually think Haku and Neru are real Vocaloidds still and go “Gumi who?”.  The attention is however on Miku English, which also has opened everyone’s eyes up, even those who don’t realise we have English already at hand.  There is a lot interest in Vocaloid right now, whether or not you want to accept it, the English Vocaloid engine has got a lot of interest recently, whether or not Oliver is forgotten is another thing.  But there are still people interested in Leon and still people buying Miriam.  Its just a shame they are about to be retired along with V1 Kaito and V1 Meiko.

            Though due to the wealth of Crypton, those two are luckily being updated, Zero-G doesn’t have that comfort yet.

            Just do me a favour, just accept that no matter what you say, you cannot stop progress and that what will happen will happen.  In ten years time there will be more people usingthe English Vocaloids engine then there is now. 

            The Japanese fandom si more established then the Western one, we have no
            base to sell our songs on.  Producers either have to learn Japanese to
            get noticed enough to get anywhere or struggle along to get 100 views. 
            The Japanese Vocaloid fans cannot produce Engloid songs, so we’re not
            able to ask them to make a song for us anytime soon and most will only
            use Luka because English came with a Japanese voicebank.  That was the
            importance of Luka having it, youc an taste English without having a
            useless voicebank.  We don’t have supercell, we don’t have any famous
            P.  We have Circus-P and a few others and thats pretty much it.  The
            producers using Engloids are a minority, who can’t get enough views
            because their not using popular J-loids, their using Engloids no one has
            heard of
            .

            Unless the situaiton changes and westerners can get their works more noticed, this isn’t going to change in a hurry.

          13. You done with your sob story? Because I honestly don’t care that you are part of the wiki or that you found cantor. Almost all of you last argument is you saying how you found this and how you found that. You still haven’t produced evidence that can dismiss the engloids as not
            being crap. The western side does have the ability to host music with
            Apple indie section or even on song cloud. Also their are plenty of
            guides that engloid users can use with just a simple search. ( Even
            Zero-G hosted one youtube in ten parts)Yet still the engloids still sound like crap and are rarely used. Why might this be? You pretty much stated it in your argument it is because the fandom does not like how the sound and the fact they are low quality with bugs that are easily detectable further pushes it. Until you can find an engloid that is as successful as the jploids you won’t win this argument. The Jploid side will always better better in terms of marketing,appeal, and ease of use because they are just plain overall higher quality. Since they have more followers they get more money to invest, and better techniques to record and make even higher quality banks. 

            As for saying that I fear them is not true. If a company is going to do an engloid then they should do it right instead of doing the same thing over and over again and not fixing it. That is why I am not forgiving of either PowerFx or Zero-G because neither of them fixed the errors that had been reported the first time.

          14.  You can read my arguments above and below. But that sounds 10,000 X times better then any engloid original

          15. I have read your “arguments”. So far, the most you’ve been able to do is cherry pick mildly negative comments from otherwise positive reviews and constantly state that the quality of a Vocaloid is in direct proportion to their popularity, despite it being known  that the highest quality Japanese Vocaloids (VY1 and VY2) are the least popular because they don’t have cute anime avatars. While the people arguing with you have been giving evidence for their facts, you haven’t been able to prove that ANYTHING you have said is actually true. You have no argument.

            I also like your comment about the communities. “If they are actually good, why is the community so small and why aren’t they more popular?”. All you have to do is look at Miku. Why is Miku popular? She’s popular because her design appealed to a lot of people, which brought a lot more attention to her. You can say all you want about her being higher quality but she ISN’T. Her voice isn’t that great. Also, Kaito originally only sold 500 copies before the ice-cream incident, and then he shot up in popularity because he now had a connection to Miku. The popularity of a Vocaloid has nothing to do with the quality, unless you’re saying that somehow Kaito’s quality increased over the span of a few years for no reason.

            And no, It doesn’t sound 10,000 times better. In fact, it sounds horrible. If you can honestly tell yourself that the original version of Alice Human Sacrifice has good mixing and that the Vocaloids are well tuned, your ears are broken. But we all know that you don’t really care how it sounds and you’re just going to say it sound better.


            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn3nEdq7MTA

            Here’s just three original English Vocaloid songs, all with better tuning and mixing and all produced by JAPANESE producers. I thought you said something about the Japanese fandom only using them for parody, but I guess I must have misread that.

            If it turns out you aren’t a troll, I’m going to assume you’re young enough that you’ve never had to write an argumentative essay before, or you payed others to do it for you.

          16. Really? That’s your evidence of good? None of those were good. Night of Magic was nothing but a Techno Song ( And not even a good one at that) , Discon Communication was pretty much run through Google translator and L♀LA was extremely muffled and out on the screams, and Ann was straining on Not a wonderful world. So if thoughs are your examples of the engloids as “good” then here are my examples of them being bad

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BQxBjO_AGw

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dVFVfKujC8

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSfYJU2WBI

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YknNQz0pe0

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBxphW-tAgU

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